Recent Posts by daenkolarin

Topic: Ideas / Replies

One additional thought: Population is a very expensive resource right now (except in rush decks), as it puts a harsh upper limit on how many cards you can play that use it (Demons mostly). If it gets too easy/cheap to get population increases, then population isn’t valued as high (making demon cards generally cheaper) and it may allow for strange (and undesirable decks) that can generate population faster than most decks can deal damage (Etherlords II has a design flaw that allows this). I don’t think City Upgrade goes that far, but it is something to think about when dealing with healing mechanics.

Topic: Ideas / Replies

My thoughts on City Upgrade are that as a nearly-pure defensive card it is doesn’t look overpriced.
The only resource it provides is the base resource needed for some Demons. Otherwise all it does is delay how fast an opponent can kill you (and with 4 resources including 1 gold you are paying a decent price for it).

Pharmacy provides a good comparison though: 2 Stone, 2Gold. Play (80 sec), Heal (2 gold, 30 sec)
-It is probably a bit more expensive to play (2 gold is probably more expensive than requiring 4 different resources at 1 each).
-It costs 2g for each 2 points healed => 10g more to get the 10hp from City Upgrade (total 2 Stone, 12 gold)
-It takes 350-400 seconds to get 10 points of healing (unless you spend 3-4 starting hand cards to boost deployment speed of the Pharmacy).
+It can be reused for a whole game if it runs long.

Based on this, I think City Upgrade is a LOT cheaper than Pharmacy. Hence my gut feel is that either City Upgrade is too cheap, or Pharmacy is too expensive.

Topic: Open Discussion / Minimum Game Speed

Aside from a very small number of gimicky rush decks that have been found so far that can potentially kill in the 150-180s range, I have noticed that there is another magic number for game speed that has shown up.

-A mana stockpile/ direct damage to opponent deck has been shown that runs in about 240-250s
-I’ve been able to work out over a dozen or more creature rush decks that use 1-3 resource types to spam 1or2 creatures that all have an ideal kill time of 240-300s
-I’ve seen a couple variants of Direct Damage/Creature Rush hybrid decks that can kill in an ideal time of 280-300s
-240s allows for 5 card draws (unless the deck is specialized to get extra draws fast) Meaning most decks will be 12 cards into their strategy (which is a decent amount of time to set up defenses for a conventional deck).

What I’m wondering is if the fact that the range 240-300 shows up so much with the current cards suggests that perhaps we should consider a minimum game time of something between 240-300 to be a good guideline.
What would that guideline be useful for? Well for balancing, if a proposed deck is able to reliably win a game in less than the guideline, it suggests that the mechanics&cards involved in the deck may need to be examined.
Conversely, if a new “killer” deck or combo is created that takes a lot longer than the guideline, then it is probably safe to presume the combo is not unbalanced at first glance.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Would it make sense to start a thread to collect the “new” mechanics (and their explanation) that are proposed by the various card idea threads? many of these mechanics, if introduced should probably show up on multiple cards, else they are probably not worth the programming effort needed to implement them.
Ex:
1) Strategy Card
2) Temporary stat Boost to target card
3) General Boost modification of some/all Unit cards while a particular Unit card is in play.
4) Effects which change the cooldown rate of one or more abilities on a target card or group of cards).

etc.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Strategy cards (as I understand Rakashun’s concept) is to have a single card that acts like a global Theme or Concept for a deck. Since it is not in the primary play area, it is not targetable like a building is. I would expect them to be used in one of two ways. One, to augment a deck’s primary goal (rapid card draws, Focus on Demon units, Run a denial/blocker tactic). The other use would be to provide a bit of protections for a deck’s weak point (limited ability to stop a rush, a method to deal better with towers of a turtle strategy, slow down the economy buildup of a boom deck).

The archetype we talked about was something like:
1 always-on small advantage.
1-2 Activation abilities that would provide limited benefits for a cost. These abilitites should each in general be weaker than an individual card (i.e. cost more to get the same benefit) since you always would have them and can re-use them through the game.

We can use them to affect the meta-game by providing strategies that boost deck styles that are otherwise pretty sub-optimal, while also NOT providing any boosting strategies to otherwise dominant styles. Ex. if Rush always beats other deck types, don’t put any strategies into the game that help a rush deck out.

Topic: Ideas / Replies

Since this was intentional (resource imbalance), I am behind it 100%. It is definitely a difference from games like MTG where all colors are pretty much equal. This does mean we have to be a bit more careful about card balances. As to the 3 Basic resources, Wood Iron Stone. I think it is ok to have them similar, as they are not “advanced” resources for now.

Topic: Ideas / Replies

Dup

Topic: Ideas / Deck Rules

I understand your point Wupstomp. I think we have too little card data yet to be sure of the right fix (to be honest). Well actually it depends on the # of cards expected in the system when it goes into a beta phase. If we are looking at cards in the scale of numbers like MTG or many of the physical CCGs, then we have to ask if the mechanic that is causing the imbalance is likely to be repeated in many cards, or if it was a one-off mechanic. If it is the former, it is probably better to address why the mechanic creates a broken game.

Also we should point out that since DarkRune has changed the Vampire Elder card’s cost, the crushing Vampire Elder Rush is now stopped (as well as the 2 variants of it I had put together). Yes Yato rush is still possible, but it is a much weaker rush.

Topic: Ideas / Deck Rules

The 7 card chosen starting hand is a very interesting mechanic. It adds a great deal of meta-game strategy to the game, as well as speeding up early gameplay (useful as some Online CCGs take a LONG time to get going).

The 7 card set however is a very very powerful tool for optimizing the use of specific cards. One example abused in several rush decks is the Magic Mushroom. Spamming multiple cards that are fairly balanced on their own into the starting hand allows them to be much more effective that if they had to be drawn randomly.

My proposal is to divide the Building type into 2 groups: Buildings, Land. or Building, Resource. Then deck rules will have the following changes:
Starting hand may have at most 1 of any non Land card
Deck limit of 4 per card does not apply to Land cards.

This change will still allow for rapid deployment of a wide variety of deck types, does not block Boom/Resource based strategies, but will mean Rapid deployment strategies will need to leverage the abilities of multiple cards rather than a single card that can be abused because of the chosen hand mechanism.
It punishes Gimicky and Simple strategies without greatly affecting complex and strategic play.

Topic: Ideas / Deck Rules

This thread is to discuss ideas around Deck Rules.
The current deck rules at the time of posting:
Max 4 of any card in the Deck
7 Cards are chosen for starting hand.

Note: All ideas proposed are just ideas, DarkRune has the final say on anything proposed.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Terror in the Night
Unit, Demon
3Iron, 1Gold, 1 Population

Attack: 3(45s), Move(30s),
Def 2
HP 6

All Non Demons Have Cooldown of All Abilities Except Move and Play increased by 15s

“All the men and beasts quiver in fear, unable to act as a towering demon of chains, spikes and bile drew near them”

Topic: News / Wow, I'm impressed

Boom is an RTS strategy where you forgo early military capability in order to grow your economy very fast to get to large numbers of weak, or small numbers of very high end units. There is also a Tech Boom in games that have tech trees, where you focus on getting high tech units fast at the expense of early military power.
In this game that would translate into 2 things:
1) Rapid deployment of Land/resource generators (to use as materials for playing)
2) Ability to boost Card Draw rate quickly. (to use as materials to Play)
Note that with the current cards, there isn’t a lot of quick ways to get your draw rate up, so a Boom strategy takes a LOT of time to get going. Just getting to small library takes quite a while (I think >4 minutes) and the librarian Unit is also slow to get to. My guess is that a Boom strategy needs at LEAST to double the card draw rate within the first 180s to have any hope.

In most RTSs, the 3 arch-typical strategies fall into Rock/Paper/Scissors.
Rush > Boom
Boom > Turtle
Turtle > Rush

Topic: Ideas / Draw Cards

Oops. Sorry, you had so many cards in that initial lists that were uncategorized that It made it a bit hard to notice everything.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Sell Your Soul
Sorcery – 1 Population
Target Human signs a pact with a demon for eternal life.
Gain Type Demon.
Max HP + 5

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Topic: Ideas / Draw Cards

The game has only a few card mechanics at the moment to draw additional cards. Basically Draw rate is the main impediment to a pure-economy Boom strategy.
Currently their are a couple of ways to trade mana for cards (ancient wisdom) and to draw cards at a fixed rate (Library, small Library, Sage, and a few random other cards).
However one thing missing that a lot of other CCGs have is ‘lookup’ cards.
ex:
Reinforcements:
Sorcery: 1G
Select 3 Unit cards from your deck and put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterwards.

Land Grab:
Sorcery: 3mana
Select 3 Land cards from your deck and put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterwards.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Demon Slave Driver:
Type: Demon, Unit
1g, 1mana, 1pop
All allied demons that are not Demon Slave Drivers gain +1attack, -1 def, and -5seconds to Attack speed.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

Demon of Jealousy:
Type: Demon, Unit
2g, 1mana, 1 pop.
4 attack, 2 def, 5hp. Attack(30s), Play(30s), Move(20s)
If any allied creature that is not a Demon is in play, Demon of Jealousy suffers -2 attack, -2 def.

Gibberling Swarmer:
Type: Demon, Unit
1g
1 Attack, 0 def, 1hp. Attack (45s), Play(5s), Move(15s)
Gibberling Swarmers gain +1 Attack for every other allied Gibberling Swarmer that is in play.

Topic: Ideas / Darkness Bound

This is a topic for idea towards Demon Type cards. Especially interesting will be demon types that contribute to Demon Themed decks (rather than just including a demon in a normal Deck)

This is an expansion filled with alot of the darker sides of the kingdom. Also included is a new card type called Strategy . It starts in play but does not take up space in the kingdom. Everything here is just suggestions and DarkRune has final say on the subject.

Topic: Ideas / Vampire Elder

Given the current game mechanics, Vampire Elder has a nearly unstoppable rush (see my Rush Threads for Deck Details).

The best ideas we’ve thought up to address this are:
Change cost to 1Iron 3Gold 2pop. Still a 6 resource card, Adds 90s to rush strategy (~240s), and is still usable as a mid-late game card in a normal buildup deck.
Alternatively it could be something like 1Mana, 3Gold, 2 Pop.

As a different strategy, give mana a capacity like Gold and Iron, which would require at least 1 more card into the combo.

Topic: Ideas / Replies

Gold mine looks generally about right…
Tax collector is too powerful, I’ve got a 4 tower VP deck that deploys in 200s, With him I can probably get VP win in less than 300s

Topic: Ideas / Resource Limits

Mana seems to hold an interesting place in the resource trees. As the only resource that does not require storage, it is the foundation of all but one of the rush decks I’ve seen so far. Further a mana-spam design to a deck

Alternatively, Gold is by far the hardest resource to store, as it has no direct production card, and storage cards are either expensive (treasury, village stores, empty trunk) or have very marginal utility (treasure chest).

Wood, Stone, and Iron are all nearly identical (slightly different deploy rates and recovery rates, but not significant compared to the other two).

I wonder if resource limit changes might help with balance?
Idea 1) Give Mana a limit and storage cards like the other 4.
Idea 2) Give Mana a limit but allow ALL resources to have a base capacity of 1 or 2 (with cards adding more capacity).

Topic: Open Discussion / Rush Decks

Mountain Wolf Rush:
4 Forest
3 Mountain Wolf
Rest of Deck Optional (should be green heavy of course as you have 4 forests)

-9- Card Vampire Elder Rush Deck
3 Conjure Gold (1 in Hand)
2 Vampire Elder
3 Treasure Chest (3 in Hand)
3 Magic Mushroom (1 in Hand)
3 Ancient Woodland (2 in Hand)
~71% chance of success otherwise +45seconds to success. Expected time is about 5s faster than the normal Elder Vampire Rush.
Basically drop the Chests, and magic mushroom + Conjure gold. Use that gold to convert the Ancient Woodlands into 2 card draws each (gives you 5 cards for the cost of 4. Then summon as usual. Basically this method lets you avoid the 45s delay to get the 2nd vampire (but has more plays so takes longer to click at start).

Topic: Open Discussion / Rush Decks

Yato:
2 Yato (in Hand)
4 Magic Mushroom (in Hand)
Rest of Deck Optional.
~150s to death.

Vampire Elder
3 Treasure Chest (in Hand)
2 Magic Mushroom (In Hand)
2 Conjure Gold (1 In Hand)
2 Vampire Elder (1 In Hand).
NO OTHER CARDS
~160 Seconds.

Topic: News / Wow, I'm impressed

Thanks for the compliment. I’ve picked up the new awards (though they aren’t computed correctly for some reason, as it seems to be 10 shy in total).
I might have a look at some alternative deck constructions, though the current meta-game being a blend of RTS & CCG makes it a little odd (not necessarily a bad thing). As you look to move into a Beta phase, it would be a good idea to look at how the high level meta-game and general strategies are balanced.
So far the RTS meta-game strategies seem to apply the most (Boom, Rush, Turtle), though my gut feel is that Rush is dominant strategy based on the current card balance & designs (I’d need to have some people to help analyze the current setup to verify if I’m right).

Topic: Open Discussion / Rush Combo

Short list of Simple Counters I’ve worked out.
1) Use the same Hand in response, but add 1 animated skeleton to the opening hand. You can use the skeleton to snipe one or both of the Yato’s, or force a Yato to give up his attack to kill the skeleton. Essentially it is a game of chess to see who gets out of the initial battle with a card still standing for advantage.
Pros: Counter with slight maneuvering advantage, can use the rush if the opponent isn’t countering.
Cons: You are left with very little to work with if your opponent deploys a counter against you.

2) Opening hand has 5 immediate deploy to field cards (ex 5 forests), and 2 low cost creatures (like Mountain Wolf [MW]). Deploy the 5 Forests into the 5 2nd rank positions. When wood arrives, deploy the two MWs into positions 2 and 4 of your first rank. If a Yato takes out one of the lands and moves into the second rank, attack it with the MW while it is suffering from cooldown. Basically all the rusher can do is destroy a few lands but since the MWs are faster to move and attack, they can force a stalemate with the Yato’s .
Pros: Since you have some land and creatures in your starting hand if you are not Yato Rushed, the rest of your deck can be build to use that land effectively. If you do face a Yato Rush, odds are you will deploy the rest of your deck faster, since you can count on some level of land availability.
Cons: Sub-optimal opening against a non-rush deck.

3) Opening Hand: 4 Magic Mushroom, 2 Lesser Chain of Mind (1 card free). Once he drops the Yato’s you steal them with Lesser Chain of Mind and turn them back on him. Since he will have minimal strategic advantage left, you will crush him.
Pros: Very effective counter. Win time is possible in < 130 seconds (fastest win I’ve seen yet).
Cons: Useless against virtually every other opening hand in existence.

Topic: Open Discussion / Rush Combo

I’m not sure if anyone can think of a defense against this opening hand, but it has a lot of attack power right out of the gate:
Start Hand:
4 magic mushroom
2 Yato, The Angry Wizard
1 – Something else useful.

Rest of Deck
—- Low cost cards with lots of lands/resource generators

Basically you are giving up all of the strategic advantage of the fixed 7 start cards in exchange for a lot of early attack power. Unless your opponent 4-5 cards in his 2nd rank in less than about 30 seconds, you can get both Yato’s into the second last rank, where they can do 6 dmg each every 60 seconds. Best match result I’ve gotten against the “good” bot is a win in 153 seconds.

Can anyone think of a faster rush than this?
Does this fast of a rush affect the Meta-Game to the point that all opening hands needs some type of specialized counter?